Dietrich Bonhoeffer
“When all is said and done, the life of faith is nothing if not an unending struggle of the spirit with every available weapon against the flesh.” Dietrich Bonhoeffer
“Unless we have the courage to fight for a revival of wholesome reserve between man and man, we shall perish in an anarchy of human values…” Dietrich Bonhoeffer
“Any Jesus that would advocate for women and girls to murder their innocent (meaning not conceived through rape, not a grave threat to the life of the mother) unborn children would be considered EVIl, not just psychotic, in my book. Also. the whole notion of socialism is against the biblical work ethic
Your attacks are usually the reserve for desperate people who have no real facts to back up their opinions. It is a classic liberal tactic that I have been unfortunate to have suffered from by Progressives, Liberals, Marxists, Socialists, Anarchists, anti-Semites, KKK type radicals and other Leftists and far right anarchst/libertarian kooks for over two decades. You are nothing new.
I don’t mind that you attack me, but if I am right, you can take your humble place to suffer for the children of God, or decide to beat them until the Lord comes back.
BTW, it is not I who hate you, since if I did, I would slash and burn you with such intensity that it could be considered an art form. I instead CHOOSE to give you a bruise, instead of a kiss….” 777Denny in response to me on his blog.
Glenn Beck-Fox News Photo
Glenn Beck has an interesting way of coming back and I found today just what “the fruit of Glenn’s spirit” is. Believe me it is about 180 degrees out from the passage in Paul’s letter to the Galatians which says “By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, 23gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things.” Galatians 5:22-23
Well sports fans life remains interesting just as I was about to let go of this I received the text in bold above from 777Denny after which I decided that there was no use trying to reason with him. I guess it didn’t help matters that after trying to be polite that I said that he sounded psychotic, but even with that I was pretty gentle on him and a even a bit witty. However Denny has no sense of humor and this was his response. I found it interesting that he mentioned abortion because I had never brought it up and if he had read this website he would know that I am pro-life and the church that I am ordained in has one of the strongest pro-life and anti-abortion ethics of any church in this country. I have written against people who have killed abortion providers and those who urge that they be killed but that does not mean I am somehow I am not pro-life I just believe the “born” have a right too and that no person has the right to simple go to someone’s home, church or business and kill them, even abortion providers. However with some people like Denny who have been fed on 20 plus years of “conservative” talk radio and Fox News there is no-reasoning. Until I came back from Iraq I listened to or watched this stuff on a non-stop basis with the result that I was nearly always spun up and mad at someone. When I came back from Iraq the invective and continuous drumbeat of hatred convinced me that that in spite of the claims that these broadcasters were “pro-God, pro-life and pro-family” that they only used this to gain the support and thereby the market share and profits of Christian conservatives.
Stirred up by the likes of Beck people like Denny have sacrificed their faith on the altar of extreme right wing intolerance. Now I am NOT saying that everyone who listens to talk radio or Fox News has sacrificed their faith, I said people like Denny. Personally I know a huge number of very conservative Bible believing Christians from all denominations who live their faith as loving and caring members of society who even when the disagree vehemently with liberalism would never treat people that Jesus died for as enemies to be destroyed by Denny’s “Angry Jesus.” In fact the comments generated by the last couple of posts with the exception of my new friend Denny are quite complimentary which gives me some hope.
As I came out of my fog from my post surgery pain I began to think about this. In doing so it came to me is that what really bothers Denny about me is that I stood up to him. Denny is a classic bully. Bullies don’t like it when people stand up to them. I did not roll over when he attacked and called me all sorts of names and condemning me to hell thinking that I was Roman Catholic and as such a member of a “false religion.” He still thinks I’m in a false religion but that’s okay. In fact I like the labels that he has for me and that he says that I have “no real facts to back up” my opinions. This is learned behavior. I have heard guys like Beck, Michael Savage and others treat callers who disagreed with them the same way back when I religiously listened to them. Denny has learned well.
Denny and those like him really do serve to discredit conservative Christians who live their faith and treat others with kindness, respect and love. Unfortunately for these Christians people like Denny and the folks like him are loud and because of Beck, Savage and others are now considered by many Americans not only to be representative of conservative Christianity but to be its authentic voice. I have a lot of friends that are not Christians both at work, in the community and with whom I have gone to school or served with in the military that have been abused by “Christians” like Denny and the “churches” that echo his thoughts. Many have left the faith for various alternatives. I am sure that some like Denny would say that they “were never saved to begin with and that’s why they left” but such talk is used only to justify themselves and their mistreatment of others. If people wonder why many young people want nothing to do with the Christian faith all they have to do is look at people like Denny who have so entwined their faith with extreme right wing politics that there is no longer any way to determine where one begins and one ends.
Glenn Beck has resumed his attack on churches and religious leaders that have dared to disagree with his statements from last week turning his attention on Jim Wallis of Sojourners Magazine. Wallis is an evangelical Christian who is politically a mainstream liberal. His magazine and organization have a strong emphasis on social and economic justice. But if you really want to know how people like Beck would treat those who disagree with them should they ever come into power this should chills through your body…
“So Jim, I just wanted to pass this on to you. In my time I will respond — my time, well, kind of like God’s time, might be a day, might be a week to you, I’m not sure. But I’m going to get to it in my time, not your time. So you go ahead and you continue to do your protest thing, and that’s great. I love it. But just know — the hammer is coming, because little do you know, for eight weeks, we’ve been compiling information on you, your cute little organization, and all the other cute little people that are with you. And when the hammer comes, it’s going to be hammering hard and all through the night, over and over…”
Since Beck has the nearly unlimited resources of Fox News and News Corp at his disposal this is no empty threat. When his “fair and balanced report” comes out it will be hailed by conservatives who will congratulate him for “taking down” one of their opponents. It will be about as “fair and balanced” as Josef Goebbels Völkdeutscher Beobachter during the 1920s and 1930s but that will make no difference. Wallis and others like him are considered the enemy to Beck. They are to be discredited and vanquished. Unfortunately there will be many Christians who will applaud Beck at the expense of a brother in Christ and that shame will be with us for a very long time. This kind of worldview is exactly why Bonhoeffer said that “politics is not the domain of the Christian.” Bonhoeffer saw the passions of Christians being whipped up by extremists on the Right and the Left in Germany and those same demonic forces are at work here through people like Beck.
You see Denny is not the problem. He is a symptom of a vicious political climate where politicians and the media often funded by immense corporate enterprises such as News Corp attempt to convert Christians to ideologies that have no resemblance whatsoever to the Gospel. Denny talks about the “biblical work ethic.” However, if one examines Scripture there are far more commands to take care of the poor than “he who does not work shall not eat” verse that is the basis for Denny’s “biblical work ethic.” Comparing the agrarian society of most of the biblical world to the modern era is an intellectually dishonest tactic as the eras have little in common. I’m sorry what I see Jesus teach in the Gospels and shown in the book of Acts looks a lot more socialistic than capitalistic to me. Unfortunately Denny really does believe this perversion of the Gospel and in large part due to what he is being fed day after day. I guess that is why Andrew Schlafly at the “Conservative Bible Project” wants to re-write the Bible to conform to this political and ideological point of view, that Bible should be quite popular with folks like Denny when it comes out.
The fact that closes his comment with a veiled threat, “it is not I who hate you, since if I did, I would slash and burn you with such intensity that it could be considered an art form” seems to indicate that he believes that I am worthy of such a fate. This is the kind of thought that embraced Germany in the 1920s and 1930s. It is reflective of a moral sickness and social decay. As I finish this I received Denny’s reply to me after politely backing out of the discussion on his blog site so I guess what I said really struck a nerve. Here it is:
“Social Justice” has nothing whatsoever to do with abortion-on-demand rights, but rather a SOCIALIST AGENDA which is against the tenents of of the biblical work ethic. No amount of personal digs at me is going to change this FACT. If you do not like these FACTS, then ignore them.
I certainly do NOT want you coming back here and spout your attacks and nonsense about S.J. and me. And if you attack those who attack evil when they attack it, then expect some blowback. I am on their side. Get it? So don’t attack if you don’t want to back up your ideas with FACTS.”
I grieve for the church, the country and Denny when I read this. Since I was not defending abortion on demand rights I have no clue why he says this especially when I assured him that I am pro-life as is the church that I am ordained. I do pray that things will get better and not end like they did in Germany and to this end as a Priest I will speak out.
It is funny. Had I not been laid up with a Kidney stone for most have Lent I probably would not been as reflective or as engaged as I have been on this subject but I can legitimately say that I am compelled by the Gospel to do so. The danger to the church is growing as is that to the republic and as a Priest, Christian and American I must speak out.
Denny is certainly not an enemy to me, the more interaction that I have had with him the more I grieve for him. Whereas I could have ended up hating in previous times I cannot now because I have decided to pray for his. At the same time I cannot be more concerned for our country as anger like Denny’s becomes more widespread through the likes of Glenn Beck. As Bonhoeffer said “I can no longer condemn or hate a brother [or sister] for whom I pray, no matter how much trouble he causes me. His face that hitherto may have been strange and intolerable to me is transformed through intercession into the countenance of a brother for whom Christ died.” At the same time I cannot ignore their words and thereby cede my responsibility to proclaim Christ crucified. Thus with Martin Luther I now end:
“Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.”
Peace,
Padre Steve
The Inglorius Padre Steve's World 
I know this, Beck has some ideas which I do not agree with all the time. I also think his point of stating the obvious about how any church can be used against itself is a valid one. Health care debates in this country have brought out feelings and thoughts many have hidden. Churchs helping people do not make the words social justice something the government should attempt to create. Agendas are hidden all the time including by church’s. Abortion is a sticking point for many on this bill, but yet they have no problems with the rest of the bill. What this shows is that by using a persons religion and their desire to do good and help others, it can be used against them. Social justice is nothing more than code for socialism. Social engineering is what caused our financial crisis via everyone must own a home, it some how became a “right”. Now we are being told that health care insurance is also a “right”. We actually have people in congress who believe they control those rights. That my friend is a real problem, and sooner than later religious freedom will also find its way into the political conversation when it is in the best interest of those who would use it to begin with. Words mean a lot now, people as yourself should know this. If a man believes his religion is under attack he very well may strike back, you I am sure are aware if this.
Bernie
Thank you for your comments even if we do not entirely agree you bring out good points especially the way that the current “Health Care Reform” is being pushed through. You argue your points dispassionately and as a gentleman. What the Democratic leadership is doing makes me very uncomfortable because it looks to me that they are trying to ramrod something through that first is opposed by far more people than it is supported and and full of things that I do not support. I think that it needs to be defeated but that some type of reform needs to be passed. I have worked in major hospitals, private, public and military. In some of the poor areas that I have lived where no matter how hard people work, even those fully employed can not afford health insurance as it stands now and have none provided as part of their work compensation. The bills that they cannot pay are absorbed by both the government, state, local and federal as well as lead to increased health care costs for the rest of us. When I graduated from seminary and completed my hospital chaplain residency i took a position at a private “not for profit” hospital in Huntington WV. The hospital hired me as a contractor and my houre were longer and with lower pay than the regular chaplains. Additionally I had no health care benefits much of my time in seminary as well is that job. I was serving in the National Guard as well. We had significant medial bills that were crushing, To choose between prescriptions needed for a sick family member food, gas and rent is difficult and we had to do it for a number of years. I know what that is like and something needs to be done. We have through various government and corporate practices destroyed the livings of many Americans who’s jobs are now overseas. I don’t like defining some things in the term of “rights.” At the same time corporations and the government(since it makes the laws and signs the treaties that allow good jobs to go overseas) have responsibilities to the broader health of the nation because while we have generally good health care in this country for an increasing number it is not affordable. It is also a matter of national security in a time where terrorists have access to toxins and biological products that could if unleashed cripple the nation and kill millions of people.
I know some have used the term social justice for other agendas, however the concept should not be arbitrarily dismissed. I think the idea is well understood in Scripture however one cannot compare the largely agrarian economy of biblical times with the post-industrial and technological times that we live in now. There is no way that churches can provide such support because the cost and need is too great. One can argue the causes for this but the fact remains that the private sector must step up to the plate and invest back in the industries and infrastructure needed to keep our county economically sound or the government and private charities will have to keep doing more and without the investment in infrastructure and industry as well find a way to manage what is going on in health care then we will be in worse trouble than we are now.
As far as religious liberty. That has and will remain the domain of the right, the left with few exceptions such as Jim Wallis and Sojourners will do little to pick up that ball. Unfortunately because of the because so much of the church is beholden to only one side of the political spectrum they will be co-opted and used by that side. When they speak up too late people like Beck will use their media power to bully them and if in power would be far more likely at the national level to crush the religious freedom of any group that they desire. Beck is about to do this to Wallis and Sojourners and unfortunately a Christian, albeit someone on the political left will beaten about by someone with the full power of News Corp behind him. He has made that threat and promised “to hammer” Wallis and his organization around the clock. That is as much or more of a threat to religious liberty because it invokes the passions similar to the “Yellow Journalism” of the 1890s and it will be the death of religious freedom. We used to think that this was the domain of “liberal” TV networks when they took down corrupt television ministries or insulted orthodox Christianity in film or on TV. The first we deserved, the second come from secular prejudice against faith, especially that of conservative Christians of almost any denomination. Likewise harassment of churches, ministries or individuals differs widely. Sometimes it is meant as real persecution. Sometimes it is simple inept and stupid government or hostile individuals in otherwise indifferent, inefficient and uncaring government agencies. At times it is due to uncivil and rude Christians who have no problem dictating to “non-believers” thier religious beliefs that in turn get attacked.
Beck is a greater threat than you may realize. His rantings are almost looked to as “gospel” by many and he will use those people to beat down others. 777Denny has said that if “hated me” that he would basically whip my ass in far more brutal terms. That a supposed Christian would make violent veiled threats at a 28 year military combat veteran are frankly a bit disturbing all because I criticized Beck and when he condemned me to hell pushed back. That is a serious threat and unfortunately people who’s passions like 777Denny have been inflamed by Beck to the point of hatred are the kind of people who would be like the Brownshirts in Nazi Germany, not the cool and calculating SS but the brutal SA. Beck is dangerous and a threat to religious liberty. If he wants to criticize government programs that is fine, but using his “bully pulpit” to attack churches and religious groups regardless of the denomination over his “individual” interpretation of the Bible wrapped around his political ideology he ventures into the arena where it cannot and should not be shunted aside simply because one agrees with much of his political beliefs. That is how conservative German Christians ended up in the back pocket of Hitler.
Again thank you for your polite and reasoned response to this article. While we do not agree on everything I appreciate your comments and interaction. Reason, civility and concern for the country and not just the political agenda of one party over the other needs to return top the front in all of these debates unfortunately there is precious little of that today. Thanks for being different.
God bless friend,
Padre Steve+
Padre Steve,
I must admit that 777Denny’s comment in the beginning stopped me short. I had to pause to reflect before moving on: Was this a veiled threat against Steve? It certainly read that way? Who was this person to be so extremely blinded by hatred in the name of his god?
Then I continued reading. I must say that your ultimate assessment that Denny is a bully is correct. He feels no fear in making threats, as is the case with bullies, but his hackles immediately rise if anyone seems to sense his weaknesses and call him on it. Classic disposition.
That being said, the problem with bullies is that they come in roughly two categories: those who talk but back down when cornered, and those who talk and become violent when cornered. Your mention of the people who kill abortion providers is a good example of the latter. When words no longer suffice, violence becomes the next step.
Of course this is your blog, and I know that you are very tolerant in welcoming opposing comments; however, you might want to think twice about allowing visits from 777Denny in the future. His rantings are not discourse worthy of acknowledgement.
Just saying . . .
Poietes
I don’t think he will be coming back, if he does I will probably block him and let him expend his energy.
Thanks for your concern because I do think that guys like Denny are capable of about anything.
Blessings
Steve+
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